Comments on: Houston….. we have a problem ! http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435 Francois 'Navman' Dumas about his flightsim, riding and other activities ..... Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:58:22 -0500 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: davidvoogd http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435&cpage=1#comment-11551 davidvoogd Fri, 28 Dec 2007 13:33:49 +0000 http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435#comment-11551 Well said Francois, and something that needed to be said by someone who would be noticed. I'm starting to think that FSX is FS2000 part 2. New sim with great new features that no one can run, short of a few people with massive disposable incomes. It seems to me that Microsoft is pushing FSX as part of its general push to rejeuvanate PC Gaming as many are switching to consoles which are a lot cheaper than a gaming pc. This explains why the focus is more on the sim itself than expandability. It also seems that the Aces development team was pushed too hard to get FSX out too fast. I totally agree that FS11 should be a complete rebuild / fresh start. A lot of the performance issues seem to come from trying to push highly detailed scenery through an ancient and inefficient scenery engine. For payware developers, I think an FS9 market will remain. Dreamfleet and Carenado are still developing for FS9 first, FSX later, an approach I hope more payware devs might revert to. At my virtual airline it seems the vast majority of users are still using fs9, and even those who do use FSX still use FS9 as well. One option for FS9 to live on is for freeware to expand and fill in the void. There are still fairly good releases coming out for FS9. You still do see the odd FS98 addon uploaded to Avsim even. I guess the other option is a switch to X-plane, but the aircraft don't seem to match FS9's for visual quality or complexity. Well said Francois, and something that needed to be said by someone who would be noticed.

I’m starting to think that FSX is FS2000 part 2. New sim with great new features that no one can run, short of a few people with massive disposable incomes.

It seems to me that Microsoft is pushing FSX as part of its general push to rejeuvanate PC Gaming as many are switching to consoles which are a lot cheaper than a gaming pc. This explains why the focus is more on the sim itself than expandability. It also seems that the Aces development team was pushed too hard to get FSX out too fast.

I totally agree that FS11 should be a complete rebuild / fresh start. A lot of the performance issues seem to come from trying to push highly detailed scenery through an ancient and inefficient scenery engine.

For payware developers, I think an FS9 market will remain. Dreamfleet and Carenado are still developing for FS9 first, FSX later, an approach I hope more payware devs might revert to. At my virtual airline it seems the vast majority of users are still using fs9, and even those who do use FSX still use FS9 as well.

One option for FS9 to live on is for freeware to expand and fill in the void. There are still fairly good releases coming out for FS9. You still do see the odd FS98 addon uploaded to Avsim even.

I guess the other option is a switch to X-plane, but the aircraft don’t seem to match FS9′s for visual quality or complexity.

]]> By: Milton_Shupe http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435&cpage=1#comment-10682 Milton_Shupe Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:20:31 +0000 http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435#comment-10682 Francois, Great to read your thoughts ... and I could not agree more. Personally I feel for the add-on marketers and payware builders caught up in this whole thing. I happily sit on the sidelines now piddlin' around with not much of anything and staying with FS9. Freeware aircraft projects seem mighty scarce lately and you understand why. Best to you and your enterprise and the tides turn in your favor in 2008. Francois,

Great to read your thoughts … and I could not agree more. Personally I feel for the add-on marketers and payware builders caught up in this whole thing. I happily sit on the sidelines now piddlin’ around with not much of anything and staying with FS9. Freeware aircraft projects seem mighty scarce lately and you understand why. Best to you and your enterprise and the tides turn in your favor in 2008.

]]> By: Fragmentum http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435&cpage=1#comment-10681 Fragmentum Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:14:57 +0000 http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435#comment-10681 If a consensus was reached buy the developer community that need the revenue from products offered for FSX, that they are not realizing the sales needed to continue on that platform, and that they would continue to produce products for FS9 instead, would that have any influence on MS to redevelop rather than patch FSX? I would assume that those of us that have FS9 also have a large investment in downloaded freeware and payware and our FS9 has matured over several years. Do we want to ditch that investment? I don't think so. To my way of thinking, the best part of FSX is NOT available to me with the computer I am operating. I would just as soon as keep adding to my 'mature' FS9 rather than install freeware and payware to a simulator that I cannot already use all the features that are already there.... Fragmentum If a consensus was reached buy the developer community that need the revenue from products offered for FSX, that they are not realizing the sales needed to continue on that platform, and that they would continue to produce products for FS9 instead, would that have any influence on MS to redevelop rather than patch FSX? I would assume that those of us that have FS9 also have a large investment in downloaded freeware and payware and our FS9 has matured over several years. Do we want to ditch that investment? I don’t think so. To my way of thinking, the best part of FSX is NOT available to me with the computer I am operating. I would just as soon as keep adding to my ‘mature’ FS9 rather than install freeware and payware to a simulator that I cannot already use all the features that are already there….
Fragmentum

]]> By: t_hous http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435&cpage=1#comment-10660 t_hous Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:40:07 +0000 http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435#comment-10660 Francois, Nice to see someone is finally saying what needs to be said about FSX. I purchased a new computer and FSX in March and since then have pretty much felt like an outcast in the FS Community. The very limited addons available are usually cost more than FSX which leaves me scratching my head. PMDG's 747 goes for $81...paallleeeaaassseeee! Flying on VATSIM is almost impossible....Squawkbox still doesn't have a compatible version and FSInn is marginal at best. Some of the VA's have a few token FSX aircraft but most are still using FS9. In my opinion, this "it's all about the $" attitude from developers needs to stop or 2008 is going to be just as bad or worse than 2007. Keep up the good work!! Francois,
Nice to see someone is finally saying what needs to be said about FSX. I purchased a new computer and FSX in March and since then have pretty much felt like an outcast in the FS Community.
The very limited addons available are usually cost more than FSX which leaves me scratching my head. PMDG’s 747 goes for $81…paallleeeaaassseeee!
Flying on VATSIM is almost impossible….Squawkbox still doesn’t have a compatible version and FSInn is marginal at best.
Some of the VA’s have a few token FSX aircraft but most are still using FS9.
In my opinion, this “it’s all about the $” attitude from developers needs to stop or 2008 is going to be just as bad or worse than 2007.

Keep up the good work!!

]]> By: Francois http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435&cpage=1#comment-10495 Francois Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:46:15 +0000 http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435#comment-10495 Heheh, yes I discussed it too while in Seattle and had a few FS developers support me in my views. That doesn't mean they'll actually DO what they think they should do... but there is hope ;-) I'll have lots more parts to visit, probably won't get to it all in this life anymore... but there's always a next! After having spent much time in Chicago in a previous life, I am not sure I'll go there for any holidays *grin*, but I realize there is more than that 'in the middle'. Next trip might take us to Oregon and the west Coast though.... time will tell! Merry Christmas to everybody !! Heheh, yes I discussed it too while in Seattle and had a few FS developers support me in my views. That doesn’t mean they’ll actually DO what they think they should do… but there is hope ;-)

I’ll have lots more parts to visit, probably won’t get to it all in this life anymore… but there’s always a next! After having spent much time in Chicago in a previous life, I am not sure I’ll go there for any holidays *grin*, but I realize there is more than that ‘in the middle’.

Next trip might take us to Oregon and the west Coast though…. time will tell!

Merry Christmas to everybody !!

]]> By: deltanovember http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435&cpage=1#comment-10483 deltanovember Fri, 21 Dec 2007 05:54:21 +0000 http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435#comment-10483 Francois; Re; the backward compat issue, Phil Taylor's recent post on Avsim seems to indicate the next version will not have backward compatibility with older versions of FS. He indicates that it'll be compatible with what is presented in the latest version of the FSX SDK but after that all bets are off. At least if I read it right. He and several third party dev's had a lively, long, and seemingly productive exchange....which was open to the public and quite informative. I'm glad to read your trip to the U.S. was enjoyable. Next trip you'll have to visit the REAL U.S. ....the part in the middle. LOL Regards Denny Francois;

Re; the backward compat issue, Phil Taylor’s recent post on Avsim seems to indicate the next version will not have backward compatibility with older versions of FS.

He indicates that it’ll be compatible with what is presented in the latest version of the
FSX SDK but after that all bets are off.

At least if I read it right.

He and several third party dev’s had a lively, long, and seemingly productive exchange….which was open to the public
and quite informative.

I’m glad to read your trip to the U.S. was
enjoyable.

Next trip you’ll have to visit the REAL U.S.
….the part in the middle. LOL

Regards

Denny

]]> By: westv http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435&cpage=1#comment-10413 westv Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:04:19 +0000 http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435#comment-10413 Well FSX runs well for ME on MY system however, it seems clear that is not the case for everybody. Reading posts like yours, Francois, seems to indicate that all is not well in the FSX aftermarket. I think a large part of the problem is that fact that MS thought the CPU market would continue cruising on the same motorway but the market decided to exit at the next junction and go a different way. By the time that happended it was too late for MS to make the necessary changes to FSX. It would not surprise me if there was some sort of FS11 edition late next year.....but then again that guess is probably a pile of poo! LOL!! Well FSX runs well for ME on MY system however, it seems clear that is not the case for everybody. Reading posts like yours, Francois, seems to indicate that all is not well in the FSX aftermarket. I think a large part of the problem is that fact that MS thought the CPU market would continue cruising on the same motorway but the market decided to exit at the next junction and go a different way. By the time that happended it was too late for MS to make the necessary changes to FSX.
It would not surprise me if there was some sort of FS11 edition late next year…..but then again that guess is probably a pile of poo! LOL!!

]]> By: Fragmentum http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435&cpage=1#comment-10204 Fragmentum Thu, 20 Dec 2007 04:46:53 +0000 http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435#comment-10204 Francois, You have hit several 'nails on the head' here and I think your insights are correct. As on who has most of the North American add-ons for FS9 and still enjoys all the eye candy this flight sim has to offer and yet also forces myself to fly in FSX with little PC power to have any eye candy, I am also stuck between 'a rock and a hard place'. My first discretionary money should go to a computer upgrade, but in today’s economy that money is hard to come up with now. I therefore would not spend much on FSX add-ons if I cannot enjoy all that is already in the sim! Sort of a 'Catch 22' analogy, too! The Accelerator Pak and SP2 just screws my FSX installation all up and have had to completely uninstall and reinstall FSX with SP1 to get the sim to fly with my hardware. Clearly the choices that MS has made towards flight simulation for the consumer industry has been, if you will, fragmented and self serving to a large degree. I think they fail to see just how important the 'after market' is and how it drives the industry as a whole. The developers that have been providing a large portion of the consumer flight simulator add-ons are making their ‘bread and butter’ in the military and commercial market. If they are not nurtured to some degree by MS, then they will go away…. Fragmentum Francois,
You have hit several ‘nails on the head’ here and I think your insights are correct. As on who has most of the North American add-ons for FS9 and still enjoys all the eye candy this flight sim has to offer and yet also forces myself to fly in FSX with little PC power to have any eye candy, I am also stuck between ‘a rock and a hard place’. My first discretionary money should go to a computer upgrade, but in today’s economy that money is hard to come up with now. I therefore would not spend much on FSX add-ons if I cannot enjoy all that is already in the sim! Sort of a ‘Catch 22′ analogy, too! The Accelerator Pak and SP2 just screws my FSX installation all up and have had to completely uninstall and reinstall FSX with SP1 to get the sim to fly with my hardware.
Clearly the choices that MS has made towards flight simulation for the consumer industry has been, if you will, fragmented and self serving to a large degree. I think they fail to see just how important the ‘after market’ is and how it drives the industry as a whole.
The developers that have been providing a large portion of the consumer flight simulator add-ons are making their ‘bread and butter’ in the military and commercial market. If they are not nurtured to some degree by MS, then they will go away….

Fragmentum

]]> By: Francois http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435&cpage=1#comment-10132 Francois Thu, 20 Dec 2007 00:31:13 +0000 http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435#comment-10132 Yes, there are updates and modern stuff in there too, I know. But at the same time there still is code relying on stuff that's been written - and added to - some 10 years ago. Every programmer fears to change anything in such an environment at some point, because there is no way of telling what ELSE will happen ELSEWHERE with such changes. I am not saying they should get rid of the 'good' parts, but you know: 'soft doctors make stinking wounds' ;-) Yes, there are updates and modern stuff in there too, I know. But at the same time there still is code relying on stuff that’s been written – and added to – some 10 years ago.

Every programmer fears to change anything in such an environment at some point, because there is no way of telling what ELSE will happen ELSEWHERE with such changes.

I am not saying they should get rid of the ‘good’ parts, but you know: ‘soft doctors make stinking wounds’ ;-)

]]> By: christian http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435&cpage=1#comment-10116 christian Wed, 19 Dec 2007 23:50:38 +0000 http://flightsimplaza.com/fsblog/?p=435#comment-10116 Some very good thoughts there Francois and I agree with almost everything you wrote. I'm not sure about cutting backwards compatibility that drastically though: a) MS cuts backwards compatibility with every release, but stuff that's one to two versions old still works which in my opinion is a good thing. b) MS do update the engine. I think FSX is the an up-to-date engine. The format they use is the latest DX format. They're using DX9 shaders. It's already state of the art. c) MS did a radical revamp for CFS3. And it flopped so badly that the CFS line has been discontinued. The big mistake they made is breaking compatibility with a service pack. Usually, there is a bit of dust kicked up when a new version comes along. But this time, the dust doesn't settle since the service packs keep changing the game. Let's hope the dice are cast now and we can get on with it. Some very good thoughts there Francois and I agree with almost everything you wrote.

I’m not sure about cutting backwards compatibility that drastically though:

a) MS cuts backwards compatibility with every release, but stuff that’s one to two versions old still works which in my opinion is a good thing.

b) MS do update the engine. I think FSX is the an up-to-date engine. The format they use is the latest DX format. They’re using DX9 shaders. It’s already state of the art.

c) MS did a radical revamp for CFS3. And it flopped so badly that the CFS line has been discontinued.

The big mistake they made is breaking compatibility with a service pack. Usually, there is a bit of dust kicked up when a new version comes along. But this time, the dust doesn’t settle since the service packs keep changing the game. Let’s hope the dice are cast now and we can get on with it.

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